That's right, I'm moving on... After trying Paleo and losing on it, besides a few kilos, lots of energy and precious thyroid tissue , I embarked on the Peat style diet and kept that up for eight months. I gained a lot of energy back, I increased my metabolic rate as reflected in my daily calories intake, I stuck to my pre-Paleo weight and I acquired a superior understanding of how my body works. ("Superior", as compared to the blissfully ignorant lifestyle I used to have before my health failed me, but I am sure many of you are way more in tune with their bodies than I can ever hope to be.)
I have been fascinated by deciphering the results of my genetic testing for a few weeks now and I am mesmerized by the potential answers that lie within the field of Nutrigenetics.
I know, this is still in its infancy and there are no "gurus" around to make "following" a nutrigenetic diet an easier journey. Not that I paid attention to the "Peat practitioners" previously as I had been too burned with the Paleo "practitioners" to ever trust any of these folks again, but there is not even a Ray Peat in this emerging field.
So much the better, no noise. These "practitioners" are all self-experimenters who gathered a bit of knowledge, largely from extensive internet browsing, and who have superior online marketing skills. In Peatdom that is so obvious: Peat is making way less money than the astute "practitioners" who "translate" his work for their patients, whom I guess must be people too busy to bother reading all the Peat articles for themselves. The fact that these highly questionable "practitioners" do not only dispense nutritional information without qualification, but they also dabble in hormone supplementation, using a few intuitions of Peat's as "the science behind them" makes me shudder.
But enough of that. I never linked directly to them and if you used them, good luck to you, I hope no harm will ever come your way and I am the one who exaggerates here.
NUTRIGENETICS!
Just like I did not throw away many of the Paleo recommendations when I moved to Peat dieting (as a matter of fact, the valid parts of these diets tend to overlap, see the broth and/or gelatin example, which is carried forward from Paleo to PHD to Peat, in the order in which I discovered them or, rather, from Peat to Paleo to PHD, in their chronological order), I will preserve from the Peat lifestyle whatever worked for me in this self-tailored Nutrigenetic diet.
So, my Nutrigenetic diet will consist of cross-referencing my genetic risks and predispositions with the Peat style diet and adjusting everything so that I may not, well, succumb too early to the diseases that my genes "destined" me to encounter, should I not pay attention to my lifestyle and awaken any of the monsters laying dormant for now.
You see, I have already managed to disturb the Hashimoto monster during my Paleo/ketogenic experiment, and that was a second-rate one, hidden in the background, on the innocuous list of "typical risk factors".
Thus, believe me, I don't want to step on the Type 2 Diabetes or Coronary Heart Disease dragons, which reign supreme on top of my list of high risk, unlucky genetic combinations:
At some point on the same scary list, Hypothyroidism is mentioned, with 3 out of 5 markers indicative of higher risk...:(
It will be a bit awkward to blog about this because that would mean revealing a lot of my genetic make-up. On the other had, so what if I reveal too much information, who is tracking this down and what can they do about it?
The risks associated with that are amply overshadowed by the chance that someone else might benefit, one way or another, from the story of my journey...
But enough of that. I never linked directly to them and if you used them, good luck to you, I hope no harm will ever come your way and I am the one who exaggerates here.
NUTRIGENETICS!
Just like I did not throw away many of the Paleo recommendations when I moved to Peat dieting (as a matter of fact, the valid parts of these diets tend to overlap, see the broth and/or gelatin example, which is carried forward from Paleo to PHD to Peat, in the order in which I discovered them or, rather, from Peat to Paleo to PHD, in their chronological order), I will preserve from the Peat lifestyle whatever worked for me in this self-tailored Nutrigenetic diet.
So, my Nutrigenetic diet will consist of cross-referencing my genetic risks and predispositions with the Peat style diet and adjusting everything so that I may not, well, succumb too early to the diseases that my genes "destined" me to encounter, should I not pay attention to my lifestyle and awaken any of the monsters laying dormant for now.
You see, I have already managed to disturb the Hashimoto monster during my Paleo/ketogenic experiment, and that was a second-rate one, hidden in the background, on the innocuous list of "typical risk factors".
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| Between "Scleroderma" and "Essential Tremor" there were a bunch of other conditions. Source: 23andme.com |
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| And the list goes on and on and on, unfortunately.. Source: 23andme, I hope they don't mind...:) |
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| Alas, it was in the (three) stars... Source: 23andme.com. |
It will be a bit awkward to blog about this because that would mean revealing a lot of my genetic make-up. On the other had, so what if I reveal too much information, who is tracking this down and what can they do about it?
The risks associated with that are amply overshadowed by the chance that someone else might benefit, one way or another, from the story of my journey...
I went through the Nutrigenetics phase before Peat. To tell you the truth, I didn't get all that much from it. I hope you can get more out of it than I did.
ReplyDeletePS: I'll share my genome with you on 23andme if you want.
I'm hybridizing Nutrigenetics with Peat... :)
ReplyDeleteI am relatively new to this -- what is the purpose of sharing genomes on 23andme? Just sheer curiosity? Can one learn anything from it?
Seeing fifth cousins in so many places was kind of fun, but I didn't necessarily feel I should burst into their lives or anything like that. That part is a bit weird to me.
I love that community though, so many scientists! :) I feel like a retard there, but I sure am learning a whole lot!
I think people mostly use it for making weak statistical guesses. Oh, you have X polymorphism too? Do you also suffer from Y disease? etc.
ReplyDeleteThere were some interesting polymorphisms which control whether you can convert carotenes to retinol well, "supertaster" polymorphisms, etc.
The real problem is that genes are mostly just probabilities. Even taken together, it doesn't add up to a very large probability, with some notable exceptions.
Given the paucity of genetic bases for inheritance, I'm beginning to lean towards the idea that inheritance isn't limited to the genes.
People have even found evidence of unfaithfulness by comparing genetic data lol
I don't know, Kiran... You seem quite disenchanted with this path, but I am very, very optimistic and excited about it.
ReplyDeleteTo see that long list of conditions I am more likely to suffer from then the majority of folks was a bit of a shock at first, but now I am glad I know all those probabilities and I am willing to examine my diet and lifestyle from that new perspective. A 41% probability of developing diabetes will definitely lessen my wish for sweet treats and favor my starch avoidance, especially that my mother suffered from this condition as well.
Again, even if it's all in my head... My head is VERY IMPORTANT! :)))
I am fascinated with the haplotypes and what they might mean for our lifestyle and diet... Never mind d'Adamo's "genetic types", this is the real deal -- how does one's maternal haplotype influence one's adjustment to modern life and how is one to optimize that inheritance? To see the migration pathways of one's ancestors and to try to imagine what they faced and how they adjusted to their conditions might also give one ideas on how to best feed oneself and how to live, because, as you say, inheritance isn't limited to genes...
Maybe I read too much into all this, but hey, the charm of contemplating these things is irresistible to me.
I too have an increased risk of diabetes, and I would be technically diabetic by modern standards. But Ray's ideas work pretty damn good, and I kept going without noticing any of the bad symptoms. Alas, modern medicine doesn't have very many good choices when it comes to diabetes, alzheimer's, kidney disease etc.
DeleteI agree, genealogy is very cool, genetics make it easier to find one's ancestors and the utility of genetics goes much beyond nutrition.
Be really careful with that, Kiran, wow... To me, besides his exaggerated recommendations for progesterone, Peat's views on diabetes are the next questionable topic. That is actually the first thing I want to address in the "nutrigenetic" adaptation of the Peat diet.
DeleteYesterday I took a test "How likely are you to get diabetes compared to the other women your age" and the result was "way below average chances" (link to the right) -- so I guess many things in the Peat diet are good from the perspective of prevention -- no PUFAs, no starches, no cereal products... But I would also like to see normal blood sugar too, constantly, all the time, I would not be happy with "technical diabetes", as you put it..:))) Check out the conversation on 23andme on this subject, there are two very nice guys there sharing their stories. One of them reversed the bad readings with diet and exercise, the other one adopted a fasting method.
Coming back to Peat: I am rather surprised how in his personal stories he comes across like hypoglycemic, more often than not. His issue is fighting back hypoglycemia with frequent snacks, sweet drinks, etc. I bet that he has very different genes controlling blood sugar, compared to mine, and quite possibly, yours.
All nutritional experts/authors should share their genomes with their patients/readers, lol! :)
Actually, that's not such a bad idea, we should each follow the nutritional advice of experts with similar genetic make-up, then we could trust them! Maybe that's the way of the future, what do you think?
Well, the test is only as good as the assumptions/data it's based on.
DeleteI'll respond with a personal anecdote. For quite a while I got what I thought were hypoglycemic episodes, shakiness etc. So I got a blood glucose meter and I was shocked when the blood glucose tested *high*. Of course, I jumped to the wrong conclusion and went on a big wild goose chase.
Now I'm convinced that hyperglycemia is essentially the same as hypoglycemia, the body needs more sugar. Hyper or Hypo is determined by whether the liver rises to the challenge of pumping out more glucose or not. In diabetes, the glucose is mostly generated from gluconeogenesis by the liver, not from ingested carbs. So the treatment for hyperglycemia should perhaps be the same as that for hypoglycemia, make sure your body is well supplied with sugars(and protein).
Oh, btw, frequent snacks and sweet drinks work quite well, atleast until you figure out what's causing the hyperglycemia, usually some sort of inflammation, elevated PTH in my case.
That might be an interesting idea though. Find your genetic distance from each expert and then choose the nearest. You might get into trouble if someone super-fit turns out to be your closest match.
DeleteHmm, how would fitness level fit into that scheme?
I don't feel any desire for frequent snacks, and I am not even sure whether that is a good sign or not. I don't crave sweets. I find fasting natural but I am forcing myself to eat, in order to follow Peat's rules. Otherwise, I would be quite happy to not respond to the hunger, when it arises. Eating annoys me. To me, it is work, it has always been, ever since I was a child. And hunger usually goes away quickly. But nooo, if one listens to Peat, one has to eat a lot. Sometimes I struggle to push those calories to the 2000 limit, especially without the use of starches.
ReplyDeleteAnd, to be honest, since I have seen my 23andme results, I no longer like to eat sweet things, guilt interferes and I tend to avoid "treats". My daily sugar intake is one full glass of OJ in the morning and three teaspoons of sugar, in my two big mugs of coffee with goat milk. The rest is protein, fat and a little alcohol, in the evening.
I am not sure what you mean about the fitness level. That's a personal option, I wouldn't care how fit my nutritionist is, it is his choice to spend long hours and sweat around to look buffed. I am happy to not look fat, and that is achievable through diet. I'm neither fat, nor fit..:)
So you say PTH could be a factor of inflammation? I didn't know that. I am struggling to figure out what causes my low level inflammation, there must be a budding one, I just know it! I'll find it, eventually! :)
Well, say your nutritionist was superfit Robb Wolf. I don't expect to get good advice from someone like that, because I'm not really superfit, and it's not realistically a goal of mine.
ReplyDeleteIf I had a cousin who was a conventional nutritionist, obviously they would be closest genetically, however it won't necessarily be the best advice. Just a couple things to chew on.
Yes, PTH is inflammatory, and you can't necessarily rely on the lab's range.
"Vitamin D, parathyroid hormone, and insulin sensitivity"
"PTH excess may promote weight gain by impeding catecholamine-induced lipolysis-implications for the impact of calcium, vitamin D, and alcohol on body weight."
Casualties of The Nutritional Dark Ages, Part I: Calcium
I imagine a day when all one needs to do is to introduce his name on an app, fill in a series of goals, and the app would then list the available nutritionists and their presentations, with a bunch of criteria to prioritize them by. Actually, that 23andme map where you can see where everyone stands on the genome would be a nice one to populate with nutritionists/doctors/chefs/other categories I can't think of right now...
DeleteSpeaking (or not) about RW -- I am sooo tired of the Paleo scene, it seems so 2011 to me, I am shocked it is still going on -- I believe the level of fitness of the nutritionist should not matter as much as long as he or she is within an acceptable BMI. Nobody's muscles intimidate me, I know the hard work behind them and I will not be persuaded to ever stress my body for such effects. I will eat to keep the muscles I have and not to allow fat to build up excessively, but that's about as far as I am willing to go.
I was thinking, in a way, genetics as a filtration device has always been an intuitive criterion. I remember that the first time I saw a picture of Peat's, I felt a wave of confidence -- more than I should have, perhaps, lol! He actually looks a lot like my father and a bunch of my male relatives.
I also found it easy to read and trust Mark Sisson...
It sounds sad, but this is so... primal (pardon my word, I am not using it in a Sissonian acceptance here :)) When it comes to health and nutrition, I believe our genetic make-up does matter and should be taken into account better. But I doubt the research will go fast enough as to make us benefit properly from optimization via diet and to achieve the extreme personalization I have in mind. The next generation will probably be luckier in this respect.
Maybe this newly budding genomic awareness will contribute to re-coagulate the original tribes, no matter how far we are scattered nowadays? Is that good, is that bad? Uncharted territory, indeed. And endlessly fascinating!
Thanks for the PTH info, Kiran!
I have no doubt that the next generation will have access to way more tools(genetic and otherwise) than we do. It's definitely fun to fantasize about the tools available in the future.
DeleteBut is it too much to ask for some basic info to reach the public's consciousness right now, about HFCS and PUFAs for instance. ;P
I even fear it somewhat, because then I won't be so special and people who grew up with the new tools will quickly outpace us who had to figure things out on our own.
Also, perhaps we should take this convo to email/chat at some point. seems like it's just us anyway, not sure how much detail I should give out in a public convo.
ReplyDeleteYou question Peats ideas. Thats reasonable. Therefore i dont understand, why you dont question these absurd, exact values of probabilities which are based on a vague understanding of genetics.
ReplyDeleteHey, tobieagle,
ReplyDeleteI question that data, surely. I see it as a piece of the puzzle which my health has become. I feel like a detective here, trying to interpret all kinds of indications and data, in an attempt to find my body's lost equilibrium.
I will write another post about how I look at the genetic picture and how I place the numbers and the findings 23andme presented me in a much wider context. Not all of it will be pure science, by all means, but there will be lots of hard, cold facts, leaving open some interpretations and definitely closing others. Or so I think...:)